interrogation methods

Since the death of Bin Laden, the torture supporters have been in chest thumping mode, saying that it was the harsh interrogation torture of detainees that lead to the intel:

Finally, in May 2005, al-Libi was captured. Under CIA interrogation, al-Libi admitted that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed, he received the word through a courier. But he made up a name for the courier and denied knowing al-Kuwaiti, a denial that was so adamant and unbelievable that the CIA took it as confirmation that he and Mohammed were protecting the courier. It only reinforced the idea that al-Kuwaiti was very important to al-Qaida.

If they could find the man known as al-Kuwaiti, they'd find bin Laden.

The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.

"We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day," said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.

But, as it turns out, it wasn’t torture that lead to the information:

Mohammed did not discuss al-Kuwaiti while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He acknowledged knowing him many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.

Not only does it get the debate going – it reframes it.

Remember the Republican controlled Congress spent 1/10th the time investigating Abu Gharib as they did investigating Bill Clinton's Christmas Card list. Here is why that is such a crime:

Outgoing Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, the prison's former U.S. commander said in an interview on Saturday.

Former U.S. Army Brigadier General Janis Karpinski told Spain's El Pais newspaper she had seen a letter apparently signed by Rumsfeld which allowed civilian contractors to use techniques such as sleep deprivation during interrogation.

Karpinski, who ran the prison until early 2004, said she saw a memorandum signed by Rumsfeld detailing the use of harsh interrogation methods.

"The handwritten signature was above his printed name and in the same handwriting in the margin was written: "Make sure this is accomplished,"" she told Saturday's El Pais.

Karpinski was made to be the fall guy (girl) in the entire scandal and no one would listen to her. Now she is going to countries where people will listen.

It is amazing how we hear that we should support our troops, yet the people who constantly make that demand are the ones who refuse to listen to the troops when they address problems like this. Almost every single general who has served in Iraq and left service during that time has raised serious complaints, but Bush don't listen to them. Instead he chooses to listen to the now fired Donald Rumsfeld.